Navigating High-Conflict Divorce: Mediating with a Narcissistic Spouse alongside Experts Scott Levin and Lara Brunström

Are you facing the daunting challenge of negotiating a divorce with a partner whose personality could fill a Shakespearean drama? Fear not, for Scott Levin, a top rated divorce mediation lawyer in San Diego, CA, alongside coaching maestro Lara Brunstrom, unravels the intricate dance of mediating with a narcissistic spouse. Our enlightening discussion cuts through the noise, offering a clear path to amicable settlements even amidst the highest of conflicts. Dive deep with us as we navigate the complexities of communication, the role of experts in easing tensions, and the strategy behind choosing mediation over the fiery pits of litigation.

There's a silver lining in every cloud, and in the realm of divorce mediation, it's witnessing the transformation of our clients as they embark on new chapters of their lives. Lara and I share the heartwarming journey and profound gratification of steering individuals towards sanity-preserving outcomes that allow them to flourish. Take a seat at our table as we celebrate the success stories that trickle back from those we've guided, a testament to the power of professional collaboration and the art of effective communication. This session is not only a treasure trove of wisdom but also a beacon of hope for anyone braving the choppy seas of high-conflict divorce.

Thanks for listening and I hope you'll continue to learn more about how you can peacefully divorce.

As a divorce mediation attorney in California, Scott Levin helps couples figure out the settlement terms and draft enforceable settlement agreements so they can divorce fairly without needing to go to court. Obtain closure peacefully through an amicable divorce. process that protects families and kids.

Visit San Diego Divorce Mediation for more information and to learn more about our mission to help divorcing couples make informed decisions and fair agreements through mediation or book a free virtual consultation.

Scott Levin, attorney, mediator, CDFA®
Chief PeaceKeeper
scottlevinmediation@gmail.com
858-255-1321
San Diego Divorce Mediation & Family Law
www.SanDiegoFamilyLawyer.net

Chapters

• 0:03 Mediation and Narcissism in Divorce
• 9:18 Settlement Process Guidance and Support

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:03

Hey everybody, this is Scott Levin, chief Peacekeeper. I'm a mediation attorney in California and one topic I'm here with Lara Brunström Hi, lara, hello. One issue that comes up all the time when I am talking with people about mediation and whether it can be appropriate for their situation et cetera, is can you mediate a double divorce settlement if your spouse is narcissistic or has narcissism or another high-conflict personality trait? So you help people approach divorce through a coaching service that you offer, where you keep them even keeled, you keep them focused, you keep them on point so that they can be successful in mediation. But I guess my question is what do you think about narcissism and voluntary settlement through mediation?

Speaker 2: 1:03

It's absolutely doable. So I mean you can do anything right. I also believe wholeheartedly that narcissism is a very broad, overused term. I don't know how many times you would say you saw a true, bona fide textbook. 100% shows all the signs diagnosable narcissist. I would say more what we deal with on a daily basis is somebody who has highlights of narcissism. They have maybe if there's 20 traits, they have like three. However, your spouse has been dealing with those three and they get exploded right and they get very frustrated by them. So it's very doable to get to reach an amicable settlement. It takes skillset that you don't probably have right now.

Speaker 1: 2:06

Do you think that hiring attorneys to litigate a divorce is less helpful or more helpful when you're dealing with someone that you think has those high conflict traits?

Speaker 2: 2:19

Oh my gosh. So I'm going to answer that a little bit different, because I am a flag-waving believer in settlements and mediation. I truly, wholeheartedly believe that it is so hard if you start an escalation up here to deescalate a divorce that if you can hit the ground running with a mediator such as yourself, who's super skilled in their craft and really reaches settlements so often I don't even know I don't think we've ever shared a case that you haven't brought to settlement Like you're super successful Teamed up with somebody who's helping you a good mediator and somebody who's helping you communicate in situations that you just don't have the skillset for, that's, I think, perfect. You can go lawyer up. What I tend to see with high conflict is the lawyers aren't referring out to coaches, they're not utilizing other sources and it's just escalating and that becomes a problem. So, yes, you can do it. And is it going to be more effective to both of you have a lawyer? My guess is you'll both have a lawyer, you'll spend a year getting divorced and then you'll end up in mediation.

Speaker 1: 3:47

Yeah, I agree. I think the de-escalation is harder Once you start in a litigation stance, even filing that. The way that that first court filing is prepared can be triggering, because that's what your attorney is trained to do is to position yourself against the other person. And even that initiation can be drafted in a way that is really puts the other person on the defensive right from the beginning. And people that are put in the defensive that already have the history to show that they can be very reactive and explosive in that reaction. You want to keep things as calm at the outset as possible and then escalate only if it's required. But why not try a process that gets you if it's successful, will get you out of the relationship in a matter of months rather than years, If you're really dealing with someone that's emotionally and mentally beating you down, essentially I would want to get away from that person as quickly and fairly as possible, but not to get hunkered down in a two and a half year battle.

Speaker 2: 5:09

Absolutely, and I do. You raise a really good point because I see this all the time. Where a brief is written or whatever the papers are called I'm not a lawyer. Whatever the papers that go back and forth are called there's always an attorney on one side who has to jab. You know well, he's super educated but he just doesn't really do anything with his education, so he has a tendency to not like why, why? Like that has nothing to do with how this is going to go.

Speaker 2: 5:42

I'm jabbing at character in those papers sends things sideways really fast where, if you're both working with you, you're not writing something to to sword fight, you're writing something to come to resolution. So you're not picking a fight. You're actually kind of paving a smoother road for them to get to where they want to go. Ultimately, if you're filing for divorce, your goal is presumably to get divorced, not to spend two years fighting or badgering the other person, which doesn't help the kids. That's a whole nother topic. But that's not going to serve your children to be in this battle for two years, which is why I think a lot of people who start with lawyer up their escalated slide right back down to mediation.

Speaker 1: 6:35

It's interesting. So to approach a case in my, in my opinion, you should navigate a process through mediation, but you can still get all the consultants and people on a team that will help set you up. So you can, you know, have a coach like Laura, you can hire a consulting team, you can have a financial expert, but these folks are, you know, working on an hourly basis and advising you. But the end goal is to get through the process in the most direct way, absolutely, and I think that's one of the benefits of that education and advice and counsel and and all that great support. But as opposed to relying on one person who is very used to being the only person involved in a case, as that person's you know attorney, counselor, you know therapist in a way, you know everything around where a really used to be setting up to be the sole provider of service, and so that's one option. Or you can go this other way, where you have a whole team of people designed to help you get through it, and that's really the smart approach.

Speaker 2: 7:46

It's smart and I think it's less expensive. Like when you say a whole team, my brain goes oh my gosh, I'm thinking people are going to think oh my gosh, I have to hire all these people.

Speaker 1: 7:55

So much.

Speaker 2: 7:56

It's not the case. It's actually addressing the client as a whole person their personalities, the conflicts they're facing, the legal aspect, their emotions, their children. All of that's going to be tied, big fat bow tied around all of that. That's the solution we're looking for and we're looking for a client to come through the other side of this, ready for their future, not torn apart and embattled in like scars all over the place internal, external, visible, not visible Like. That's not the goal. The goal is to get out to the other side, start your new life, have your feet firmly planted on the ground and your kids healthy and happy.

Speaker 1: 8:38

Yeah, and I love what you said. When someone files for divorce, presumably that goal is to get divorced, not to just get stuck in the divorce process, and everything you said can't happen until you get through it and get yourself unstuck. The way to get unstuck in our opinions is to is to attack the issues and figure out solutions through a mediated settlement. But to learn more, how can people contact you, taylor? I'll put all the information in the description, of course.

Speaker 2: 9:07

Yeah, absolutely, I'm. Sterling Fire Coaching is what I call my coaching company. My name is Laura. You can find it in the notes here. I have a lot of people reach out that just want some guidance on how to go through this process, how they get through it sane, how they work with you, how they meet with you and have conversations with their spouse on the outside of the meetings they have with you. So it's really beneficial. I super love sharing clients with you because we get such great results, so it's lots of fun to launch people into their next world.

Speaker 1: 9:47

So yeah, that's how you find me put it in the notes. Yeah, and I love seeing people that email me a couple of years later or call for something, just to check in and tell me how well they're doing. It's great to see that they've had that opportunity to thrive, which came from the settlement being done in this way. Absolutely All right y'all, we'll see you soon and thanks for watching or listening.